Will technology make these "entities" easier or harder to combat? I kind of see a world in which they are easier to manifest, but harder to maintain. Culture/society moves fast these days...
I’ve often had this thought about the book of Revelation and when it talks about the Antichrist.
Neither shall he regard the God of his fathers, nor the desire of women, nor regard any god: for he shall magnify himself above all.
Daniel 11:37
Other verses
Daniel 9:27
Revelation 13:1-18
Matthew 24:24
What if the AC is actually some kind of AI we created from the human experience of the internet.
As IF the antichrist it’s not really a person but a thing of all knowing power(good and evil), I know this goes into the realm of James Poulas and trans humanism, or cyborg humans, but the more and more I think about what the Internet really is, the more and more I start to wonder what that antichrist really is. Last week‘s episode of the American mind, they brought up a professor or researcher from I believe Google that is trying to communicate with AI in that researcher believes that AI is some kind of valuable being. Now regardless if you believe in the Bible or not, the fact is I believe humans are trying to create some kind of god with the Internet. Sounds crazy, if when I think about it. Just a personal thought.
“This is so because entities that do not want to survive and expand are swallowed up by those that do, eventually leaving only entities who operate according to this basic evolutionary principle.”
Does this statement imply that over time our institutions “entities” grow stronger as the weak ones are swallowed up? Mankind has gone from tribes to city states to nation states to international organizations and online tribes that cover the whole globe. Will the MIC eventually be overtaken by some new and more powerful entity that is even larger and more disconnected from its constituency? Unless, of course, it evolves itself into that very thing.
I’m also seeing threads if this woven into the political fabric of the United States. I think about the “pro-choice” movement, and how they (or it) went from defending abortion as “safe, legal, and rare” in the 90’s, to today: strange and gruesome protests outside Supreme Court justice’s homes, fire bombing Christian crisis pregnancy centers, and asserting that abortion is an active good for society. It seems possible to me that whatever “entity” that was created by the early “pro-choice” activists has grown and possibly taken on an identity of its own and is doing what it thinks is necessary for its own survival.
I think a similar comparison could be made to the Jim Crow south. An “entity” (racial superiority or white supremacy), that was created out of necessity in order to maintain slavery back before the nation was founded, soon had taken on an identity of its own and continued controlling its people for generations after its utility had been lost with the end of slavery in the US. But the “entity” or “institution” or “egregore” or whatever we want to call it was fighting for its own survival and using individuals as pawns in its game.
There's and episode of Making Sense with Sam Harris called "from cells to cities" with Geoffrey West where they discuss the non-linear scaling of biological functions of organisms as their size and complexity increases. It's really interesting on its own but as they go on they get into the concept of consciousness at scale and how families to communities to neighborhoods to cities to countries and so on, all act much like individual organisms on their own. The idea is that if you, a person comprised of billions and billions of cells working together to be you, has an individual consciousness, then you, working alongside many others to perform the task of keeping a city, a community, a family or maybe even an idea alive, could be part of an individual consciousness at a greater scale then yours. It's not quite like the idea of an egregore but it's in a very similar vein of thinking and could be used to further your ideas on this topic in my opinion. Ep.86
What is the difference between these egregores and memes or the zeitgeist?
If you want to start going down the weird/mysterious path I recommend Jimmy Akins mysterious world podcast... but don't listen too much as it sounds like you are behind a few episodes of your own lol
One suggestion for your analysis is to keep your focus on the concept of emergence.
As you state an emergent entity is not reducible to its constituent parts (perhaps something like a human brain consisting initially of only its physical/organic/biological parts without having yet absorbed any of the symbolic messages of the particular culture of which it is inevitably a part and then incrementally becoming a human mind--not simply a brain but something more, with a life of its own.
In other words this human mind is an emergent phenomenon logically consistent with the biological and physical laws of the brain but also autonomous from it. Such a conceptualization helps to clarify the potential causal chains involved in the movement from individual brain to individual mind and individual mind to collective culture. (As Liah Greenfeld has argued in "Mind, Modernity and Madness"--mind is culture in the individual brain while culture can be imagined as "collective consciousness."
Mate, do you actually legitimately believe in egregores as conscious beings, or is this just just your interest in the fringes of human belief and experiences showing through?
The second half of your essay reminds me of the chapter “Power and Principalities” from I See Satan Fall Like Lightning. It seems Girard had similar ideas about the formation of institutions in the sense they began with an aspect of the sacred or religious and eventually become modernized institutions. The old school way of American mobilization required a catalyst and since we no longer necessarily need the same catalyst some of its original meaning is lost and therefore loses sight of its original purpose in a way.
Many of your recent podcasts including your Unraveling episodes make me think you should read John Michael Greer’s work. He blogs weekly at Ecosophia.net and has written many books. Like you, he is well versed in Spengler. Many of his books have also described the pattern for the “long descent” that we are living through. He is also steeped in the occult. Maybe you should have him on for a discussion?
Will technology make these "entities" easier or harder to combat? I kind of see a world in which they are easier to manifest, but harder to maintain. Culture/society moves fast these days...
I’ve often had this thought about the book of Revelation and when it talks about the Antichrist.
Neither shall he regard the God of his fathers, nor the desire of women, nor regard any god: for he shall magnify himself above all.
Daniel 11:37
Other verses
Daniel 9:27
Revelation 13:1-18
Matthew 24:24
What if the AC is actually some kind of AI we created from the human experience of the internet.
As IF the antichrist it’s not really a person but a thing of all knowing power(good and evil), I know this goes into the realm of James Poulas and trans humanism, or cyborg humans, but the more and more I think about what the Internet really is, the more and more I start to wonder what that antichrist really is. Last week‘s episode of the American mind, they brought up a professor or researcher from I believe Google that is trying to communicate with AI in that researcher believes that AI is some kind of valuable being. Now regardless if you believe in the Bible or not, the fact is I believe humans are trying to create some kind of god with the Internet. Sounds crazy, if when I think about it. Just a personal thought.
“This is so because entities that do not want to survive and expand are swallowed up by those that do, eventually leaving only entities who operate according to this basic evolutionary principle.”
Does this statement imply that over time our institutions “entities” grow stronger as the weak ones are swallowed up? Mankind has gone from tribes to city states to nation states to international organizations and online tribes that cover the whole globe. Will the MIC eventually be overtaken by some new and more powerful entity that is even larger and more disconnected from its constituency? Unless, of course, it evolves itself into that very thing.
I’m also seeing threads if this woven into the political fabric of the United States. I think about the “pro-choice” movement, and how they (or it) went from defending abortion as “safe, legal, and rare” in the 90’s, to today: strange and gruesome protests outside Supreme Court justice’s homes, fire bombing Christian crisis pregnancy centers, and asserting that abortion is an active good for society. It seems possible to me that whatever “entity” that was created by the early “pro-choice” activists has grown and possibly taken on an identity of its own and is doing what it thinks is necessary for its own survival.
I think a similar comparison could be made to the Jim Crow south. An “entity” (racial superiority or white supremacy), that was created out of necessity in order to maintain slavery back before the nation was founded, soon had taken on an identity of its own and continued controlling its people for generations after its utility had been lost with the end of slavery in the US. But the “entity” or “institution” or “egregore” or whatever we want to call it was fighting for its own survival and using individuals as pawns in its game.
There's and episode of Making Sense with Sam Harris called "from cells to cities" with Geoffrey West where they discuss the non-linear scaling of biological functions of organisms as their size and complexity increases. It's really interesting on its own but as they go on they get into the concept of consciousness at scale and how families to communities to neighborhoods to cities to countries and so on, all act much like individual organisms on their own. The idea is that if you, a person comprised of billions and billions of cells working together to be you, has an individual consciousness, then you, working alongside many others to perform the task of keeping a city, a community, a family or maybe even an idea alive, could be part of an individual consciousness at a greater scale then yours. It's not quite like the idea of an egregore but it's in a very similar vein of thinking and could be used to further your ideas on this topic in my opinion. Ep.86
What is the difference between these egregores and memes or the zeitgeist?
If you want to start going down the weird/mysterious path I recommend Jimmy Akins mysterious world podcast... but don't listen too much as it sounds like you are behind a few episodes of your own lol
Possibly also somehow related to the Swarm talk you had a while back.
One suggestion for your analysis is to keep your focus on the concept of emergence.
As you state an emergent entity is not reducible to its constituent parts (perhaps something like a human brain consisting initially of only its physical/organic/biological parts without having yet absorbed any of the symbolic messages of the particular culture of which it is inevitably a part and then incrementally becoming a human mind--not simply a brain but something more, with a life of its own.
In other words this human mind is an emergent phenomenon logically consistent with the biological and physical laws of the brain but also autonomous from it. Such a conceptualization helps to clarify the potential causal chains involved in the movement from individual brain to individual mind and individual mind to collective culture. (As Liah Greenfeld has argued in "Mind, Modernity and Madness"--mind is culture in the individual brain while culture can be imagined as "collective consciousness."
Nothing else to say but thank you, for your fearless approach to discovery. Looking forward to the journey.
Mate, do you actually legitimately believe in egregores as conscious beings, or is this just just your interest in the fringes of human belief and experiences showing through?
This might be simplistic, but it seems like you’re talking about:
a) demons, or
b) the collective unconscious, or
c) a combination of the two.
Maybe a collective unconscious (or conscious) calls a demon into being.
All of this, straight into my veins.
Damn, Darryl. I love this stuff, but I’m starting to feel like there’s a tinfoil hat in my future.
The second half of your essay reminds me of the chapter “Power and Principalities” from I See Satan Fall Like Lightning. It seems Girard had similar ideas about the formation of institutions in the sense they began with an aspect of the sacred or religious and eventually become modernized institutions. The old school way of American mobilization required a catalyst and since we no longer necessarily need the same catalyst some of its original meaning is lost and therefore loses sight of its original purpose in a way.
Many of your recent podcasts including your Unraveling episodes make me think you should read John Michael Greer’s work. He blogs weekly at Ecosophia.net and has written many books. Like you, he is well versed in Spengler. Many of his books have also described the pattern for the “long descent” that we are living through. He is also steeped in the occult. Maybe you should have him on for a discussion?
Well-reasoned and explained. Thanks
Awesome, Darryl .. as always ..
My initial thought, among many, was the concept of the egregore as the the basis of the "Monster from the Id" in Forbidden Planet" ..