Something you have said in the past has stuck with me and lives within me, the way the Conquistadors, having traveled to lands unseen across this vast ocean still saw in their enemy a crude, devilish mockery of their own religion. That somehow the story of the serpent in the garden made its way across the Bering Strait and like a glass in a hall of mirrors they saws their own beliefs, distorted, staring back at them in the form of a culture of a New World Lithic warrior priest culture like the ones in the Levant 3000 years prior. It's such an odd feeling it raises in me, like suddenly realising that it was you yourself that had committed the crime you were investigating.
I get chills at this idea of our stories converging on one valley in Armenia and one floodplain in Iraq. The stories of our world workshopped by family groups ready to depart for war, the events that happened in those hills leaving their mark on history forever.
Absolutely love this series, as the origins of ancient religions and gods is a top interest of mine. Curious what books you’ve read that helped you shape your understanding of these subjects? I’ve been through a number of them and have come to similar conclusions. Always looking for the next good book to pick up. Cheers
I do wonder sometimes when god awoke if he too was scared, I cannot imagine a more existential nightmare then to be completely and intrinsically alone in the cosmos with only yourself and no explanation. Following this logic I imagine it must have been so lonely and must have taken a very long time to split himself or to create another. I wonder if he was experimenting when he created life at the beginning, getting more and more proficient at creation, maybe he made a little mistake with the dinosaurs and hit the reset button, and then got to us and was like "wait a second, these guys are nuts but I kind of like them.." Absolutely fascinating and thought provoking insights Darryl.
This has been my favorite series you have done, really making me expand my thoughts. I have no idea how to connect the dots on this one, but am kinda excited to see how motherhood plays a role in the story of Job.
I do truly appreciate all of the work you put into your writings, it’s just that for whatever reason I have a very short reading attention span but I can listen to you speak for hours on end without losing focus.
Just when I think you can't write a more excellent post - you do. This post was most excellent...until your next one. I do hope you will write on your thoughts regarding the comparison of hunter-gatherer and sedentary child-rearing practices.
Thanks Darryl, I appreciate the walk down mythology lane. For me, the closer we get to the tipping point of civilization, the more important mythology seems to become.
"The final exchange between the two [God and man/Job] must therefore be considered of utmost importance." Agreed. I view God's lecturing Job as His most significant statement to man. I look forward to your take on it.
"The Mother Goddess was the supreme being of Bronze Age civilizations before they were conquered and wiped out by nomads from the Semitic desert and the Aryan steppe."
This was a widespread belief in the mid 20th-century but has been rejected by most archaeologists since about 1970. See chapter two of Hutton's Queens of the Wild (Yale U Press, 2022). The chapter is a revision of his 1996 article in Antiquity (https://doi.org/10.1017/S0003598X0008457X).
The idea of snakes being a symbol of a pre-Aryan goddess culture who were defeated by Aryan warriors is spot on. Many Hindu and Buddhist myths include the stories of Nagas, a race of divine or semi-divine serpents. As you may know, the Nagas also get conflated with the indigenous non-Aryan tribes and peoples of the Indian subcontinent.
There are many episodes of Aryan princes and warriors defeating the Nagas, most famously in the Hindu epic Mahabharata. The bulk of Mahabharata's materials is supposed to have been derived from events from around 1300-700 BC. There is even an episode in the story where the god Krishna aids his friend Arjuna in the burning of the massive Khandava forest, which is the homeland of the Nagas. Interestingly, the Nagas are protected by Indra, whom you mention here as the foremost of Vedic/Aryan deities. So like you suggest, the warrior Aryan tribes may have reached some sort of understanding with the serpent worshiping goddess culture, where they weren't wiped off but protected still.
Krishna and Arjuna end up victorious, but more important is Indra’s defeat. In fact, this isn’t the only time in the Mahabharata he eats the humble pie. In subsequent myths, he’s reduced to a somewhat minor god. His status in Hinduism is still diminished to this day, whereas Krishna remains in the forefront.
Thank you - this is wonderful. Very enjoyable. I’d think that Da or Dada (or even Baba) are equally good contenders for ‘word one’ (which is more likely to be a verb ?) ie. ‘Give’ or ‘That’. (As Allan Watts described) indeed my family still call ketchup ‘dat’ because our eldest daughter would point at the ketchup on the table and so demand it for her food ‘dat!’
I have a friend who argues that the circle (of the Mother’s eye) is the first ‘word’ . The first precise ‘thing’ to be requiring of concept.
I’ve wondered along the same lines whether ‘the snake’ represents geometric concept (mathematics as the first layer of skin over mythology before metaphor) it able to be a straight line and a circle etc - indeed, I am in Tokyo this morning where the local temple (but not shrine I don’t think) is marked on ‘Maps’ with a swastika a snake eating its own tail? Even in Japanese extracted Kanji ? I do recall reading, I think in Donald Hoffman about the importance of corneal circles against whiteness of sclera in attractive processes in countless and diverse species including wing patterns on moths. I believe that the words Month and moon come from the latin verb ‘mons’ to ‘measure’ also…
I do wonder if any Chimpanzee ever watched a snake come out of a hole with ants on it and thought ‘ah: when the snake is a stick the snake has ants?!’
You might recall that in The opening scene of the book 2001 - the ape chosen by the monolith to learn the first skill is called Moon-Watcher and his first task is to tie a piece of grass into the first knot?
Anyhoo thank you Darryl again for taking the time to think about and write this - I find your style and content so consistently invigorating and provoking on all topics, but particularly this one.
I meant to mention, I think the reason papa and dada come after mama is that p and d are plosive sounds that require more development of the oral muscles and more control of lips and tongue than nasal consonants like m or n.
thanks Darryl, that was facinating. You must gave us a reading list.
Your meandering detours are a delight to read. I enjoy being along for the ride.
Fantastic pictures, can’t wait for the audio version 🤘🤘
Goddamn this guy is me sometimes.
"Meandering" is my absolute favourite type of Darryl Cooper detour.
DC at his best.
I love this shit, I do hope for more.
Something you have said in the past has stuck with me and lives within me, the way the Conquistadors, having traveled to lands unseen across this vast ocean still saw in their enemy a crude, devilish mockery of their own religion. That somehow the story of the serpent in the garden made its way across the Bering Strait and like a glass in a hall of mirrors they saws their own beliefs, distorted, staring back at them in the form of a culture of a New World Lithic warrior priest culture like the ones in the Levant 3000 years prior. It's such an odd feeling it raises in me, like suddenly realising that it was you yourself that had committed the crime you were investigating.
I get chills at this idea of our stories converging on one valley in Armenia and one floodplain in Iraq. The stories of our world workshopped by family groups ready to depart for war, the events that happened in those hills leaving their mark on history forever.
"The only frontier that has ever existed is the Self."
Absolutely love this series, as the origins of ancient religions and gods is a top interest of mine. Curious what books you’ve read that helped you shape your understanding of these subjects? I’ve been through a number of them and have come to similar conclusions. Always looking for the next good book to pick up. Cheers
I do wonder sometimes when god awoke if he too was scared, I cannot imagine a more existential nightmare then to be completely and intrinsically alone in the cosmos with only yourself and no explanation. Following this logic I imagine it must have been so lonely and must have taken a very long time to split himself or to create another. I wonder if he was experimenting when he created life at the beginning, getting more and more proficient at creation, maybe he made a little mistake with the dinosaurs and hit the reset button, and then got to us and was like "wait a second, these guys are nuts but I kind of like them.." Absolutely fascinating and thought provoking insights Darryl.
Heh, the dinosaurs being a mistake brings to mind the best scene in that otherwise mediocre Preacher series.
This has been my favorite series you have done, really making me expand my thoughts. I have no idea how to connect the dots on this one, but am kinda excited to see how motherhood plays a role in the story of Job.
I do truly appreciate all of the work you put into your writings, it’s just that for whatever reason I have a very short reading attention span but I can listen to you speak for hours on end without losing focus.
We need a DC and Jordan Peterson podcast.
That would be very interesting
Just when I think you can't write a more excellent post - you do. This post was most excellent...until your next one. I do hope you will write on your thoughts regarding the comparison of hunter-gatherer and sedentary child-rearing practices.
Thanks Darryl, I appreciate the walk down mythology lane. For me, the closer we get to the tipping point of civilization, the more important mythology seems to become.
"The final exchange between the two [God and man/Job] must therefore be considered of utmost importance." Agreed. I view God's lecturing Job as His most significant statement to man. I look forward to your take on it.
"The Mother Goddess was the supreme being of Bronze Age civilizations before they were conquered and wiped out by nomads from the Semitic desert and the Aryan steppe."
This was a widespread belief in the mid 20th-century but has been rejected by most archaeologists since about 1970. See chapter two of Hutton's Queens of the Wild (Yale U Press, 2022). The chapter is a revision of his 1996 article in Antiquity (https://doi.org/10.1017/S0003598X0008457X).
I refuse to read anything on mythology written after 1950, and I’m wary about anything more recent than 1850. I will never change.
The idea of snakes being a symbol of a pre-Aryan goddess culture who were defeated by Aryan warriors is spot on. Many Hindu and Buddhist myths include the stories of Nagas, a race of divine or semi-divine serpents. As you may know, the Nagas also get conflated with the indigenous non-Aryan tribes and peoples of the Indian subcontinent.
There are many episodes of Aryan princes and warriors defeating the Nagas, most famously in the Hindu epic Mahabharata. The bulk of Mahabharata's materials is supposed to have been derived from events from around 1300-700 BC. There is even an episode in the story where the god Krishna aids his friend Arjuna in the burning of the massive Khandava forest, which is the homeland of the Nagas. Interestingly, the Nagas are protected by Indra, whom you mention here as the foremost of Vedic/Aryan deities. So like you suggest, the warrior Aryan tribes may have reached some sort of understanding with the serpent worshiping goddess culture, where they weren't wiped off but protected still.
Krishna and Arjuna end up victorious, but more important is Indra’s defeat. In fact, this isn’t the only time in the Mahabharata he eats the humble pie. In subsequent myths, he’s reduced to a somewhat minor god. His status in Hinduism is still diminished to this day, whereas Krishna remains in the forefront.
Thank you - this is wonderful. Very enjoyable. I’d think that Da or Dada (or even Baba) are equally good contenders for ‘word one’ (which is more likely to be a verb ?) ie. ‘Give’ or ‘That’. (As Allan Watts described) indeed my family still call ketchup ‘dat’ because our eldest daughter would point at the ketchup on the table and so demand it for her food ‘dat!’
I have a friend who argues that the circle (of the Mother’s eye) is the first ‘word’ . The first precise ‘thing’ to be requiring of concept.
I’ve wondered along the same lines whether ‘the snake’ represents geometric concept (mathematics as the first layer of skin over mythology before metaphor) it able to be a straight line and a circle etc - indeed, I am in Tokyo this morning where the local temple (but not shrine I don’t think) is marked on ‘Maps’ with a swastika a snake eating its own tail? Even in Japanese extracted Kanji ? I do recall reading, I think in Donald Hoffman about the importance of corneal circles against whiteness of sclera in attractive processes in countless and diverse species including wing patterns on moths. I believe that the words Month and moon come from the latin verb ‘mons’ to ‘measure’ also…
I do wonder if any Chimpanzee ever watched a snake come out of a hole with ants on it and thought ‘ah: when the snake is a stick the snake has ants?!’
You might recall that in The opening scene of the book 2001 - the ape chosen by the monolith to learn the first skill is called Moon-Watcher and his first task is to tie a piece of grass into the first knot?
Anyhoo thank you Darryl again for taking the time to think about and write this - I find your style and content so consistently invigorating and provoking on all topics, but particularly this one.
I meant to mention, I think the reason papa and dada come after mama is that p and d are plosive sounds that require more development of the oral muscles and more control of lips and tongue than nasal consonants like m or n.