I took an hour off from working on the next slavery essay to have a chat with podcaster J. Burden about the thorny issues mentioned in the title. Check it out:The Martyr Made Substack is a reader-supported publication. To receive new posts and support my work, consider becoming a free or paid subscriber.
"In multiracial societies, you don't vote in accordance with your economic interests and social interests; you vote in accordance with race and religion."
— Lee Kuan Yew
That, in a nutshell, is the seminal quote (at least in the 20th century) about this issue.
I'd never heard of J. Burden, but really liked the show. I also noticed he has a smaller channel, and it's very cool that Daryl is willing to go on small programs help them grow. A lot of people who make it big on the internet won't do this. Something I've always appreciated about Martrymade, and the constellation of homegrown podcasters working in the same space, is the feeling of community.
I loved this interview. I'm glad you two mentioned the South. It's popular for Republicans as well as Democrats to throw the Southeast under the bus, but I think that's a mistake our side should avoid. We southerners already have the identity many are looking for. If you ask a 30 year old from the rural south were they will be buried, they might be taken aback for a second, but will probably answer with the name of an old country church where their ancestors are buried dating back to the Civil War. To be a "Hatcher from Baker County" or a "Rigsby from Summerville" means something to us. I know there are other regions who may retain pockets of it, but the South is the place were It's still the norm. Check out Florida Georgia Line's "Dirt" for more details.
I don't know how to extend that to others off the top of my head. It will probably take generations of the children of transient upper middle class families (where grandparents were born in one state, parents in another, and children in a third) to set down equal roots and invest in a community to make their own, but I encourage my friends here to consider it. It will mean a lot to your grandchildren.
And if you end up near mine, God bless and welcome!
Darryl towards the end says something like “my politics is my family…” and extended that out little by little. It’s reminds me of the Bedouin proverb “I against my brother. My brother and I against our cousins, my cousins my brother and i against the world” I don’t have anything f to add other than it reminded me of that, and I approve.
Is there any hope to be gained from the apparently cyclical nature of race/ethnicity 'doom'? Ie does a new cultural norm settle out of the chaotic times similar to how the 90's ended up two decades after the tumult of the early 70's?
Good stuff. It's my great hope that when a conflict does arise, that heritage Americans refuse to fight. Let someone else pay the butcher's bill for this ghastly traitorous regime
Yall talked a circle around it but didn’t mention something key. For a long time, Americans help individualism and self-determination as sacrosanct. Economic success, political views, geographic location, and religion were all supposed to be things you chose. Grouping people by their innate attributes was anti-American, especially in the minds of the elite East Coast WASPs you mentioned. That extreme individualism was their calling card. It’s the idea put forth in the Women’s Suffrage movement and the later Civil Rights movement. Basically, let people be judged by their actions and choices, not their unchosen affiliations. Now the Progressive Movement is doing the opposite. It’s trying to re-tribe people based on their unchosen, or supposedly unchosen, attributes. Thus the Pride flag having a stripe for every unchosen attribute standing in direct contrast to the American flag, which has stood for a version of liberty and equality where none of that should matter. The very idea that everyone needs a group identity for social advantage and protection is common in most of history, but it’s the most anti-American take on identity there is. It’s ok and quintessentially American to reject the whole identity premise in favor of extreme individualism
This Is a great discussion which does its best to understand and explain this unique place we currently find ourselves in America. Much of the misunderstanding I heard here revolves around the concept of identity as it plays into some of perceived crisis points of modern day America. Identity is a core set of presuppositions of self and the world upon which one’s entire belief structure is organized. The main purpose of identity is to experience feelings of belonging and acceptance among one’s shared identity group. One might even define Identity as a filter set through which one perceives and experiences the world. The misconception lies with failure to recognize that one’s personal identity is mainly a choice.
Thanks Cooper for the interview. you made my drive to the Atlanta airport tolerable. Now if only there was away to tolerate the people inside the airport. Cheers!
An interesting and thoughtful interview , thank you. One of the many things it brought mind is the great proliferation of genealogical research on its close confederate, DNA-based research which began decades ago but is now an enormous worldwide obsession. I started about 15 years ago when i had to give up work for a few months due to illness. It is amazing how much more embedded i feel in my 'tribal' identity which is coincidentally also white, but needn't have been. It is a kind of knowledge you can't unsee: your ethnic, historical, social place in the puzzle and for me provides a sense of security i never had previously. I think this modern phenomenon may be doing this same thing for millions of displaced people. BTW relatives by marriage from Northern Sweden already had an extensive family tree on the wall long before Ancestry.com. Their tribal links were still intact.
Finally got around to reading you and greers debate in full. I’m a big fan of both of y’all. In this interview you make a far more compelling case than you did in text, tbh.
Your points on the problems with white identitarianism are well taken, and your case for localism as a necessary precondition for a healthy society is hard to disagree with, but how do we get there?
A (bare) majority of the intelligent and energetic young people from my southern hometown are scattered across America. And it’s not some opioided shithole, it’s a lovely and well to do little town with a college. Affordable, safe. Outmigration is much worse in the rest of the country.
An American society in which this level of movement exists is here to stay, and it kills the localist idea at the root, yes?
"In multiracial societies, you don't vote in accordance with your economic interests and social interests; you vote in accordance with race and religion."
— Lee Kuan Yew
That, in a nutshell, is the seminal quote (at least in the 20th century) about this issue.
I'd never heard of J. Burden, but really liked the show. I also noticed he has a smaller channel, and it's very cool that Daryl is willing to go on small programs help them grow. A lot of people who make it big on the internet won't do this. Something I've always appreciated about Martrymade, and the constellation of homegrown podcasters working in the same space, is the feeling of community.
I loved this interview. I'm glad you two mentioned the South. It's popular for Republicans as well as Democrats to throw the Southeast under the bus, but I think that's a mistake our side should avoid. We southerners already have the identity many are looking for. If you ask a 30 year old from the rural south were they will be buried, they might be taken aback for a second, but will probably answer with the name of an old country church where their ancestors are buried dating back to the Civil War. To be a "Hatcher from Baker County" or a "Rigsby from Summerville" means something to us. I know there are other regions who may retain pockets of it, but the South is the place were It's still the norm. Check out Florida Georgia Line's "Dirt" for more details.
I don't know how to extend that to others off the top of my head. It will probably take generations of the children of transient upper middle class families (where grandparents were born in one state, parents in another, and children in a third) to set down equal roots and invest in a community to make their own, but I encourage my friends here to consider it. It will mean a lot to your grandchildren.
And if you end up near mine, God bless and welcome!
Darryl
To overlap two topics of interest.
Have you did any research on the San Francisco Zebra Murders?
Conspicuously missing from the narrative.
"Identities that you choose...are fake." Most true thing said here. An identity is earned.
Darryl towards the end says something like “my politics is my family…” and extended that out little by little. It’s reminds me of the Bedouin proverb “I against my brother. My brother and I against our cousins, my cousins my brother and i against the world” I don’t have anything f to add other than it reminded me of that, and I approve.
Maybe I’m incorrect and you did..
Need to revisit I recall the DeFeeze story and The Saturday Night Sekou Odinga Episode.
Keep the content coming.
As an aside in your reading on Labor Unions see if there’s a mention of the IBEW local 28 in Baltimore.
It had its charter revoked and some other accusations of malfeasance.
The mayor at the time was a gentleman named D’Alesandro.Believe his daughter went on to some prominence.😉
Baltimore is rife with systemic corruption.
Spirit Agnew anyone.
Is there any hope to be gained from the apparently cyclical nature of race/ethnicity 'doom'? Ie does a new cultural norm settle out of the chaotic times similar to how the 90's ended up two decades after the tumult of the early 70's?
Good stuff. It's my great hope that when a conflict does arise, that heritage Americans refuse to fight. Let someone else pay the butcher's bill for this ghastly traitorous regime
The apple podcast app. I get updates on jocko and others, but the last martyr made was jan 31.
Yall talked a circle around it but didn’t mention something key. For a long time, Americans help individualism and self-determination as sacrosanct. Economic success, political views, geographic location, and religion were all supposed to be things you chose. Grouping people by their innate attributes was anti-American, especially in the minds of the elite East Coast WASPs you mentioned. That extreme individualism was their calling card. It’s the idea put forth in the Women’s Suffrage movement and the later Civil Rights movement. Basically, let people be judged by their actions and choices, not their unchosen affiliations. Now the Progressive Movement is doing the opposite. It’s trying to re-tribe people based on their unchosen, or supposedly unchosen, attributes. Thus the Pride flag having a stripe for every unchosen attribute standing in direct contrast to the American flag, which has stood for a version of liberty and equality where none of that should matter. The very idea that everyone needs a group identity for social advantage and protection is common in most of history, but it’s the most anti-American take on identity there is. It’s ok and quintessentially American to reject the whole identity premise in favor of extreme individualism
This Is a great discussion which does its best to understand and explain this unique place we currently find ourselves in America. Much of the misunderstanding I heard here revolves around the concept of identity as it plays into some of perceived crisis points of modern day America. Identity is a core set of presuppositions of self and the world upon which one’s entire belief structure is organized. The main purpose of identity is to experience feelings of belonging and acceptance among one’s shared identity group. One might even define Identity as a filter set through which one perceives and experiences the world. The misconception lies with failure to recognize that one’s personal identity is mainly a choice.
Thanks Cooper for the interview. you made my drive to the Atlanta airport tolerable. Now if only there was away to tolerate the people inside the airport. Cheers!
An interesting and thoughtful interview , thank you. One of the many things it brought mind is the great proliferation of genealogical research on its close confederate, DNA-based research which began decades ago but is now an enormous worldwide obsession. I started about 15 years ago when i had to give up work for a few months due to illness. It is amazing how much more embedded i feel in my 'tribal' identity which is coincidentally also white, but needn't have been. It is a kind of knowledge you can't unsee: your ethnic, historical, social place in the puzzle and for me provides a sense of security i never had previously. I think this modern phenomenon may be doing this same thing for millions of displaced people. BTW relatives by marriage from Northern Sweden already had an extensive family tree on the wall long before Ancestry.com. Their tribal links were still intact.
Listening to War on the West, right now.
Finally got around to reading you and greers debate in full. I’m a big fan of both of y’all. In this interview you make a far more compelling case than you did in text, tbh.
Your points on the problems with white identitarianism are well taken, and your case for localism as a necessary precondition for a healthy society is hard to disagree with, but how do we get there?
A (bare) majority of the intelligent and energetic young people from my southern hometown are scattered across America. And it’s not some opioided shithole, it’s a lovely and well to do little town with a college. Affordable, safe. Outmigration is much worse in the rest of the country.
An American society in which this level of movement exists is here to stay, and it kills the localist idea at the root, yes?