Hey everyone. A few days ago, I posted a Twitter thread to explain a comment I had made on the topic of immigration. Essentially, I said that I thought we’d passed the threshold where any meaningful reform was really possible at the federal level, and that people would be better off focusing their political efforts on states and localities that are winnable and defensible. The thread drew the ire of immigration hawks on right-wing Twitter, and so I thought I’d bring in a few interesting guys with different perspectives to discuss it.
very interesting discussion. One point that I like to bring up is that the Left tells you exactly what they want and move toward that goal in small increments. Government run schools.....Done. Government control of healthcare......Done. Gay marriage......Done. Universal basic income.... sort of (think welfare, but they did roll out a pilot study during covid). Don’t think the Second Amendment is safe. The Right tells you what they are running against, but not running for. I like to say the Right is the dog perpetually chasing the car. once it has its teeth around the bumper it says to itself, “what do i do now?” No clearer example is how most conservatives ran to repeal Obamacare. Trump is elected and controls Congress and what happens? Spoiler alert: not a damn thing.
Thanks for this lively discussion and i hope to hear more.
The left has a compelling, charismatic all-encompassing religious/moral vision of a utopian future of equality and world peace, a telos as Bronson said. We just don’t.
It’s a near fatal flaw. What’s our goal? Reactionary Christian theocracy? 1776 but with a minority Anglo population and modern technology? 1980s Americana?
We have no forward looking vision to orient our actions and unite us. Every issue is treated as piecemeal preferences-- I like guns, I don’t like taxes, etc.
A new MAGA political party or a MAGA caucus within the R party to let us win primaries could work, but they all get COINTELPROed before they get off the ground.
I don’t see a good answer for getting out of that hole except Caesarism. It’s a postmodern world, all ideologies (except our enemies’) are dead. We can’t believe in ideologies but we can believe and unite around a man we trust, and due to the vagaries of personality we may be surprised at the new coalitions that can be formed, alliances w some newcomers as Darryl said.
And the “champion of the people” can channel that popular discontent in all kinds of ways to outmaneuver the institutions we will never control. Mass strikes and protests by Trumpists or by supporters of the whoever the Next Trump is. That’s the only realistic path I see.
I guess I’m American stock. Family has been in the middle part of South Carolina since it was a British colony. Hell my namesake was murdered by the Cherokee in a reprisal attack on the area I grew up in after some white boys raided the Cherokee in another part of the colony. That was in 1760. Pretty much the whole clan fought for the Confederacy in the 1860s. We largely sat out the revolution on account of being German Lutherans like the hessians that made up actual man power of the British army in the area.
I was born in 1987. I don’t know the demographics but the population of South Carolina is set to increase to a total of roughly half again what it was the year I was born by the end of the year. Anecdotally I much more concerned about immigrants from New York, New Jersey and especially Ohio. The ones that constantly bitch about the weather, the bugs and how we do things down here. Oh yeah and how our property taxes need to go up to pay for better schools for their children. Right after they tell you they moved down here because of high taxes. By contrast I’ve yet to meet an immigrant from central or South America that wasn’t hard working and easy to get along with and fairly conservative in their personal life. Just my 2 cents. Maybe I’m just biased against the Yankees. Probably am all things considered.
I've lived in South America for years, and had the same experience you've had with South Americans. So many of them recoil at the irrationally of the American Left, and they have more American spirit than the American-hating Left. I hate seeing these people being restricted from coming to the United States while these American-hating Leftists get to absorb all the advantages of the United States, while doing everything they can to destroy it.
My home town in rural Texas has gone from roughly half black and half white to over 50% Hispanic within the last 30 years. The groups of people that have created a long lasting negative impact on the area are the white Californians, New Englanders, and Dallasites that have flooded the area to escape the consequences of their past actions and are trying to in act the same policies they fled. Stopping the locusts is a far higher concern that illegal immigrants.
Yes it must be that I am overly concerned about not being racist and not that it’s been my experience that I get along with immigrants from below the rio grande than I do with immigrants from north of the mason dixon whose ill have been colonizing my home for 150 years.
You hit on the point that a lot of the racialist right seems to miss entirely. Hispanics may go to different churches, shop at different grocery stores, and prefer to speak a different language, but that's all. They just want to live the way they want to live. The White Progressives that are moving in actively, explicitly, seek to destroy my way of life.
If the choice is Guatemala or Ohio, I choose Guatemala. It's not even a question, really. Whites are a bigger threat to my way of life than Guatemalans will ever be.
I agree with everything you said except for the language aspect. If you live in a country, learn the language. Every other country in the world expects that basic courtesy.
Come to think of it didn’t those same New England Yankees run the state department and intelligence community for the 75 years they were fucking up South America and sowing the seeds for the current crisis? Sounds like the whole world’s problems are because of New England Yankees.
Whites in America are just like the old Indians bickering with each other while they get kicked in the face by a common enemy. Narcissism of small differences.
A fairly large number of southerners fled south of the boarder after the war. They chose Mexico, Brazil, and Cuba over Ohio. Many others moved west to escape Northern occupation. Those that stayed have been fighting a losing war against the occupation for over a century and a half. Northern white people are the perennial enemy of the South. Northern states push the policies that flood Southern and Western states with immigrants. Our Confederate ancestors where right in ways that you seem to not understand. The North is the enemy. They seek to destroy you. You will never know peace as long as you share a county with them.
Furthermore, I believe that Ohio must be destroyed
Deleted my old comment for civility. Have you been to Central America? It is not at all the same as the majority white (at that time) areas that the confederados fled to.
Interesting discussion, thanks for facilitating it DC. I’m Irish so was an outsider looking in to this. But we’re going through our own migration issues too so there was a lot of relevant overlap to consider and learn from.
One thing I still don’t get is the ire you draw from some of the frog crowd on twitter from time to time. We’re all aware of how the revolutionary left eats itself (eg Robespierre) and yet the ‘dissident’ right does the same thing.
Excellent discussion. It's an uncomfortable topic for a lot of people to tackle. Glad you're on it. As an immigrant myself I appreciate the effort. It took my family years of documentation and fees to just get the interview process going in the Moscow embassy, and then 2 more years to be approved to immigrate. Proper legal immigration is a long but a much needed process IMO.
Mar 24, 2023·edited Mar 24, 2023Liked by Darryl Cooper
I’m an ICE attorney in San Francisco. There’s a lot I could say from the perspective of a litigator who’s worked through two opposing administrations. There’s too much to say here. Anyway, it was satisfying to get thoughtful input from people looking at the issue from different vantage points. I hope you’ll publish more on this topic. Thanks!
interesting talk. I'm not white so the opening kinda freaked me out for a sec but I ended up thinking it was a good conversation overall. idk about that Indian Bronson guy tho
Had the same feeling and only was able to listen to the first half hour last night, straight up sounded like veiled white supremacist shit to me for a bit there. Didn't care to go back and listen, but I will if it gets resolved as you state.
Indian Bronson is a great thinker and writer. He did interrupt a tad too much here but he was having connection issues at one part so that might’ve been going on in the background more than was apparent. I would recommend not letting this put you off the guy
Good discussion, though I'd have appreciated if Indian Bronson had been polite enough not to talk over others so much.
Cultural aspects aside, a recurring question in my country is increasingly, what is the carrying capacity of a community/region/country?
Mass migration degrades the availability of basic resources like housing, access to medical care, etc. and yet we're seeing higher and higher immigration targets that are completely out of touch with the needs of local populations. This problem is made worse thanks to the government control of many of these services, which don't grow based on demand the way they might have if they'd been privatized.
Lately, it seems like so many of the problems we are seeing would be addressed through the de-centralization of control to prevent those out of touch with local realities from setting policies that fundamentally degrade the quality of life in many communities.
Finally worked out that I had time to listen one of these the day it was released!
With a young family and the world heading in a direction that seems completely opposite my moral compass, I feel myself just getting overwhelmed and depressed thinking about my kids future sometimes....it’s great to hear deeper thinkers than me struggling with similar type issues and how they see a path forward, it really helps “rank and file” types like me.
For now, I’m trying to do as JBP says “Get your house in perfect order....” and am getting more active in my community, I’ve got to do what I can to defend that space for my kids. Maybe one day I’ll have the capability to expand my reach, but it’s a start.
Great conversation DC, thanks to you and the guests! I’ll be reading more from all of them in near future.
Who needs a silent partner for some El Salvador chick fil a’s? 😎
PS - time come to Texas / the South, we are still holding the line.
Alot to unpack in this one, but I'll try to stick to the core subject of immigration policy at federal level.
For this I'll identify as one of those "American Stock" types. When the conversation hovers around the "white replacement" ideas I get a bit turned off. I think race is the stupidest ways to group people. Ethnicity a bit better, but since I have lost all links to any historical Ethnicity its not as important to me (hence American Stock).
I do believe Illegal Immigration is a core voting issue at the federal level. It is a big factors in the degradation of American standard of living (obviously)
Total legal immigration is still debatable for me due to lower birth rates, but being able to decide who comes on is very important.
Being able to change things at the local level only works so far as you can limit the power of the federal. Good luck fixing immigration at the local level with a strong Left Wing federal government. We sent in military to force integrating schools you don't think they would do the same for illegals?
The white replacement focus was due to two things. 1) It was the context of the comment I responded to on Twitter, and the subsequent argument, and 2) given the political fissures and level of polarization in 2023, I think serious immigration rollback would require strong commitment by a supermajority of white people, and so the question becomes moot as white people slide into minority status.
As for your last question, no, personally I do not think the federal government has the will to use force to coerce a coalition of states (creating that coalition *before* picking the fight is crucial). In the ‘50s, under the leadership of the Supreme Allied Commander of the recent world war, sure, but today? I doubt it.
The reason you can never get a super majority of whites is because it isn't a cohesive group and lacks any real meaning... I just saw a study that shows most polarization is in the college educated white demographic. Everyone else is middle of the road politically (ideology not party).
I also doubt the will of the feds today to force state action, but I can forsee a future where it can, especially with unchecked immigration and federal bloat. Just imagine dems killing filibuster, packing court,etc. boom all those illegals get amnesty. Then they are "protecting fellow citizens" from rougue States.
So basically yes focus on local and state, but also reduce federal power.
Also would like to point out that most states are just about as corrupt as the federal government, including most red states.
A nice conversation. I also am curious who falls into the category of 'white?' I suspect the knee-jerk reaction would be defined as those who have some ancestry ties to Europe, but historically that would have excluded those individuals from the Mediterranean. Does a person with a Mexican mother and a white American father count as white? As an additional question, do you think the Left permits immigration (legal or otherwise) as a core to their fundamental world outlook (e.g. borders are just some imaginary construct) or as a way of maintaining political power? If I look to other alleged core beliefs of the left elites, say climate change, they certainly use that topic as a means for political power and not a tenant by which they live.
I have seen somewhere on the internet (means it's true) that a decent percentage of 3rd generation of Latin immigrants end up identifying as white... so how does that fit into the white majority discussion.
I've an interesting question that I can't find any research on. If you took 10000 Nigerian people and plopped them down in Norway completely isolated, how long until they become white? And vise versa?
“I think race is the stupidest ways to group people”
Have you read “Troublesome Inheritance” by Nicholas Wade? The biology Mother Nature gave us is real and it’s not negotiable.
It doesn’t mean that morality goes out the window and you should treat people nastily, as was done in the past, but imitating the demographics of Guatemala or South Africa will have horrible consequences for your grandchildren.
Not much of a reader... but listen to podcasts all day.
Agree with the fact that demographics matter... ALOT. Just stating race by itself is the demograph with the least informational value.
Not gunna lie, the future looks pretty grim. How can we assimilate on a mass scale like never seen before while we are also fighting the culture war about what the American values are that we want people to assimilate to?
If we can't stop replacement immigration and do the required deportation to restore our polity, people and nation the answer is the same as if we can.
Per the comment below about a more noble elite, you and the commenter are both correct. It is in flight but we must build ourselves and our people up. We still have many good people. Are any of us on the level of the great men of a greater time? No. Not even close. But we must strengthen the hand that we have and we must build toward that ideal. For that is what led to them to what they attained.
We must focus on local politics true. It is essential that this tactic flows from the strategy of restoring a positive identity in our people. We must restore our identity as a European people, culture and nation. Even if or as it changes if we do not inculcate this positive identity in our people we will be in dire straits. We must also stop being the only tribe that does not play identity politics. Game theory proves that we will be guaranteed to lose as others pursue a group strategy.
The reasons for this are simple. The replacement migration is but one part of the project afoot. We won't just be a minority, we will be a despised and legally un-privileged minority. Our persecution is already underway and will only gain momentum if not stopped. Rhodesification or South Africanization would be a disaster for our posterity. It must be prevented at all costs. Positive identity and the formation of ourselves and our young men as noblemen are essential to prevent this and ensure our posterity's survival and ability to flourish. That must be our prime directive from which local politics and other tactics will flow.
Sorry Daryl. This is an incredible podcast. I am typing as I listen. Sorry to be so chatty. The guest who said we need ethic/racial solidarity and that our homeland and our sovereignty over it is not a negotiation is exactly correct. The fact that his comment that we should be as unapologetic in pursuing our people's interest as say, Latinos saying they vote for Latinos, was greeted with discomfort says it all. We are getting crushed because we won't organize in our interest. Protecting your genos, your ethnos, your homeland is the first most fundamental duty.
We have to get comfortable asserting our most basic right - the right to Our Homeland and Our Sovereignty. If we think that is uncomfortable, what will it feel like when we are an outnumbered, despised minority? It is a moral question because it is our children and us when we are elderly who will confront this situation. It is immoral to not protect your children and provide for the comfort of your parents. The clock is ticking. We must find our moral courage and rediscover that our first moral duty is to our genos, ethnos and the homelands from which they blossom.
I missed the name of that guest, but he is on fire.
There is another elephant in the room. You must define white. The, "whites", who are most in favor of white replacement and who spew the most vitriolic anti white statements and who are in charge of the white replacement in media/film/tv may not identify as white. I put together a slide show on this topic to help my family prepare and shepherd our posterity to safety. Almost all of the names of those, "whites", seem like they may hold an ethnic and even national identity/loyalty that is toward a non-European/Christian people and nation.
That is an elephant in the room that must be a part of a productive and meaningful discussion.
There is a second elephant in the room. That is the welfare state. We could put millions of people to work. We get rid of the dole other than true physical and mental INCAPACITY. We could also reform the ponzi economy and many of the sinecures that staff the media, HR, "social justice" consultancies, government jobs, NGOs etcetera could go be productive and constructive rather than destructive. The sinecure class is another welfare recipient and they are highly destructive. Would they pick lettuce, be part-time hotel clerks? Yes. Would they learn to be a part of a real, physical community where they are of service? Yes.
Instead of spitting on manual and menial work and the people who do it, we could honor it and them as being an important part of the fabric of society. This ruling regime's, "elite", are so degenerate, they spit on hard work and the people who do it.
In any case, welfare reform and government subsidy of the sinecure employment could probably eliminate the, "we need more workers", argument. We have them here already. They just need to be put to work - real work.
This discussion really illustrates the reason the Right struggles against the Left.
The Left has a unifying goal - make government larger and more powerful until it is dominant enough to force Progressivism on everyone, everywhere, all the time. It doesn't require 100% ideological perfection, just slow, creeping progress toward total control.
The Right is significantly more hung up on ideological purity. The debate in this episode sounds very similar to the debate we had California in 1994.
The Right's argument in 1994 - "their first act was to break our laws, they must be deported."
Mass deportation was never going to happen but the Right refused to move off that position. Any mention of (gasp) amnesty on the Right is met with complete disdain.
All the Left had to do was watch us fight and wait us out.
Since 1994 at least 20 million illegal immigrants entered and remain in the US.
Our plan isn't working.
This is my proposal at the state/local level:
1. give illegals in Idaho ID cards so we know who they are, can collect taxes, etc.
2. if an illegal immigrant commits a crime they are deported to CA
3. if they are found in Idaho after deportation to CA they receive a minimum 5 years in jail
The response is usually "you are a RINO sell out cuck who wants cheap labor." lol.
If the only acceptable approach is border wall and mass deportation (AKA a similar position from 1994) we will get another 30+ million illegal immigrants over the next 10 years and deliver them right into the hands of tyrant Progressives.
Another point in this already super long post - moderate Republicans are happy to work with Democrats when conservative Republicans thrash the shit out of them repeatedly...we are seeing this in Idaho this legislative session.
In other words, when the Right is raucous without winning seats in a Republican majority the Republican majority eventually becomes a Democrat majority. We need to turn our passion into electoral victory ASAP or face Californization in all 50 states.
Mar 24, 2023·edited Mar 24, 2023Liked by Darryl Cooper
One point that I don't see brought up a lot with this demographic shift is how the declining white hegemony will affect attitudes toward native Americans. Do the Latino, Asian, and African population feel the same responsibility for preserving the native reservations in the way non-hispanic European stock do?
Speaking in very broad generalizations with my experience with tribes in the western US there seems to be a certain amount of affinity between those who consider themselves Latino/Latina and Native Americans and their causes. This tends to be strongest among the second plus generation activists found at colleges and universities nationwide. The first generation immigrants from Mexico and Peru are all too busy trying to make it themselves to worry about anyone else’s political cause or culture.
If Seattle is anything to judge by there are racial tensions between the major Asian ethnicities and Native Americans and there doesn’t seem to be any special affinity for preserving NA culture etc.
I have never seen African immigrants in any sort of relationship with Native Americans although there are generally racial tensions between African Americans and Native Americans. I highly doubt the Muslim Somali immigrants to Michigan and Minnesota will entertain the idea of reparations or repatriation for the Sioux, who have a far better claim to that land than their claim on the Black Hills. Likewise I don’t think Nigerian immigrants waste much time thinking on the complex problems of Native American poverty because they are too busy actively pursuing education and working their way into being one of the most successful minorities in the country.
There are probably too many generalizations here to be of much use, because the cultures and relationships of the various groups of Native Americans differs so widely depending on geographic location and tribe not to mention the vast array of immigrant backgrounds.
Sooo what do you mean? Like that they have their own mini "nations" because the "White Hegemony" doesn't support the reservations like you might imagine... these places aren't bastions of prosperity and wealth... So do you mean just honoring the territories? Because that's a very loose situation as well.
"Conquered" people... via immigration, or straight up warfare/treaty are just that... defeated!
As a "Latino" kinda hate that term because it's super generic (im Mexican) i have great respect and would actually want MORE preservation of Native lands and peoples! And im just one person!
Yeah there’s no fighting this federally. Interesting arguments from a local or regional level. However, over the next three or four decades, Whites and Hispanics are going to have to become allied to stop African and other third world mass immigration into the states. This is actually a winnable battle and undoubtedly coming. Replacement is the effect; the need for a permanent serf class is the cause.
I think the unanimity of exerting power on the local level is something just about everyone else on the “dissident” right can take action with today. This needs to be a major focus on the right and it hasn’t been for any point in my lifetime. One point I disagree with, or at least disagree with from how I understood it, was made at the end. I think the US is the next cradle of Western civilization and staying with the European drivers behind Greece, Rome, the Renaissance, etc are paramount in a better future. These standards have been missing for nearly everyone alive today and need to be reinvigorated some way.
Are you familiar with the French historian Phillipe Fabry? He has an interesting take on cycles of history-if I remember correctly he identifies at least 2 types of civilizations, and possibly 3 or 4, but I remember that he considers ancient Athens and Rome to be somewhat analogous to British Empire/USA, and makes some interesting predictions about the coming shifts in Geopolitical relationship. I don't think he would share your optimism for western civilization but I thought he made some unique observations so I thought I'd share, and see if anyone else knew about him, I think most of his stuff is only available in french.
very interesting discussion. One point that I like to bring up is that the Left tells you exactly what they want and move toward that goal in small increments. Government run schools.....Done. Government control of healthcare......Done. Gay marriage......Done. Universal basic income.... sort of (think welfare, but they did roll out a pilot study during covid). Don’t think the Second Amendment is safe. The Right tells you what they are running against, but not running for. I like to say the Right is the dog perpetually chasing the car. once it has its teeth around the bumper it says to itself, “what do i do now?” No clearer example is how most conservatives ran to repeal Obamacare. Trump is elected and controls Congress and what happens? Spoiler alert: not a damn thing.
Thanks for this lively discussion and i hope to hear more.
The left has a compelling, charismatic all-encompassing religious/moral vision of a utopian future of equality and world peace, a telos as Bronson said. We just don’t.
It’s a near fatal flaw. What’s our goal? Reactionary Christian theocracy? 1776 but with a minority Anglo population and modern technology? 1980s Americana?
We have no forward looking vision to orient our actions and unite us. Every issue is treated as piecemeal preferences-- I like guns, I don’t like taxes, etc.
A new MAGA political party or a MAGA caucus within the R party to let us win primaries could work, but they all get COINTELPROed before they get off the ground.
I don’t see a good answer for getting out of that hole except Caesarism. It’s a postmodern world, all ideologies (except our enemies’) are dead. We can’t believe in ideologies but we can believe and unite around a man we trust, and due to the vagaries of personality we may be surprised at the new coalitions that can be formed, alliances w some newcomers as Darryl said.
And the “champion of the people” can channel that popular discontent in all kinds of ways to outmaneuver the institutions we will never control. Mass strikes and protests by Trumpists or by supporters of the whoever the Next Trump is. That’s the only realistic path I see.
1776 is an appealing future to me.
A man in the 1930's did.
I guess I’m American stock. Family has been in the middle part of South Carolina since it was a British colony. Hell my namesake was murdered by the Cherokee in a reprisal attack on the area I grew up in after some white boys raided the Cherokee in another part of the colony. That was in 1760. Pretty much the whole clan fought for the Confederacy in the 1860s. We largely sat out the revolution on account of being German Lutherans like the hessians that made up actual man power of the British army in the area.
I was born in 1987. I don’t know the demographics but the population of South Carolina is set to increase to a total of roughly half again what it was the year I was born by the end of the year. Anecdotally I much more concerned about immigrants from New York, New Jersey and especially Ohio. The ones that constantly bitch about the weather, the bugs and how we do things down here. Oh yeah and how our property taxes need to go up to pay for better schools for their children. Right after they tell you they moved down here because of high taxes. By contrast I’ve yet to meet an immigrant from central or South America that wasn’t hard working and easy to get along with and fairly conservative in their personal life. Just my 2 cents. Maybe I’m just biased against the Yankees. Probably am all things considered.
I've lived in South America for years, and had the same experience you've had with South Americans. So many of them recoil at the irrationally of the American Left, and they have more American spirit than the American-hating Left. I hate seeing these people being restricted from coming to the United States while these American-hating Leftists get to absorb all the advantages of the United States, while doing everything they can to destroy it.
My home town in rural Texas has gone from roughly half black and half white to over 50% Hispanic within the last 30 years. The groups of people that have created a long lasting negative impact on the area are the white Californians, New Englanders, and Dallasites that have flooded the area to escape the consequences of their past actions and are trying to in act the same policies they fled. Stopping the locusts is a far higher concern that illegal immigrants.
Blue state lib transplants have me nodding my head to brother Malcom. Lol
I am from roughly the same area. Ohio yankees are the least of our problems.
Do you want your grandkids to grow up in Ohio or Guatemala?!
I’m sorry but this sort of limp wristed “don’t call me racist” attitude is how we got in this insane mess.
Yes it must be that I am overly concerned about not being racist and not that it’s been my experience that I get along with immigrants from below the rio grande than I do with immigrants from north of the mason dixon whose ill have been colonizing my home for 150 years.
You hit on the point that a lot of the racialist right seems to miss entirely. Hispanics may go to different churches, shop at different grocery stores, and prefer to speak a different language, but that's all. They just want to live the way they want to live. The White Progressives that are moving in actively, explicitly, seek to destroy my way of life.
If the choice is Guatemala or Ohio, I choose Guatemala. It's not even a question, really. Whites are a bigger threat to my way of life than Guatemalans will ever be.
Insanity
I agree with everything you said except for the language aspect. If you live in a country, learn the language. Every other country in the world expects that basic courtesy.
Come to think of it didn’t those same New England Yankees run the state department and intelligence community for the 75 years they were fucking up South America and sowing the seeds for the current crisis? Sounds like the whole world’s problems are because of New England Yankees.
Whites in America are just like the old Indians bickering with each other while they get kicked in the face by a common enemy. Narcissism of small differences.
Would our Confederate ancestors agree with you or with me?
A fairly large number of southerners fled south of the boarder after the war. They chose Mexico, Brazil, and Cuba over Ohio. Many others moved west to escape Northern occupation. Those that stayed have been fighting a losing war against the occupation for over a century and a half. Northern white people are the perennial enemy of the South. Northern states push the policies that flood Southern and Western states with immigrants. Our Confederate ancestors where right in ways that you seem to not understand. The North is the enemy. They seek to destroy you. You will never know peace as long as you share a county with them.
Furthermore, I believe that Ohio must be destroyed
Deleted my old comment for civility. Have you been to Central America? It is not at all the same as the majority white (at that time) areas that the confederados fled to.
Ohio is your mortal enemy? JD Vance?
As someone who grew up in Pennsylvania and now lives in Michigan....Ohio delenda est.
Interesting discussion, thanks for facilitating it DC. I’m Irish so was an outsider looking in to this. But we’re going through our own migration issues too so there was a lot of relevant overlap to consider and learn from.
One thing I still don’t get is the ire you draw from some of the frog crowd on twitter from time to time. We’re all aware of how the revolutionary left eats itself (eg Robespierre) and yet the ‘dissident’ right does the same thing.
Excellent discussion. It's an uncomfortable topic for a lot of people to tackle. Glad you're on it. As an immigrant myself I appreciate the effort. It took my family years of documentation and fees to just get the interview process going in the Moscow embassy, and then 2 more years to be approved to immigrate. Proper legal immigration is a long but a much needed process IMO.
I’m an ICE attorney in San Francisco. There’s a lot I could say from the perspective of a litigator who’s worked through two opposing administrations. There’s too much to say here. Anyway, it was satisfying to get thoughtful input from people looking at the issue from different vantage points. I hope you’ll publish more on this topic. Thanks!
interesting talk. I'm not white so the opening kinda freaked me out for a sec but I ended up thinking it was a good conversation overall. idk about that Indian Bronson guy tho
Had the same feeling... like ok where is this headed brother lol
The context of why the discussion started on Twitter was a big part of why we went that direction. Should’ve made that clearer.
Yeah it made sense as it went longer! I love your stuff so I was gonna hang in there no matter what!
Had the same feeling and only was able to listen to the first half hour last night, straight up sounded like veiled white supremacist shit to me for a bit there. Didn't care to go back and listen, but I will if it gets resolved as you state.
Serious question: can White Americans never come together to act in their collective interests? Is that always called white supremacy?
👎👎
Explain what you mean by "resolved"
I think if you look at my other comment down the thread you will get the gist of what I believe they are driving at...
Indian Bronson is a great thinker and writer. He did interrupt a tad too much here but he was having connection issues at one part so that might’ve been going on in the background more than was apparent. I would recommend not letting this put you off the guy
Good discussion, though I'd have appreciated if Indian Bronson had been polite enough not to talk over others so much.
Cultural aspects aside, a recurring question in my country is increasingly, what is the carrying capacity of a community/region/country?
Mass migration degrades the availability of basic resources like housing, access to medical care, etc. and yet we're seeing higher and higher immigration targets that are completely out of touch with the needs of local populations. This problem is made worse thanks to the government control of many of these services, which don't grow based on demand the way they might have if they'd been privatized.
Lately, it seems like so many of the problems we are seeing would be addressed through the de-centralization of control to prevent those out of touch with local realities from setting policies that fundamentally degrade the quality of life in many communities.
No enemies to the right.
Finally worked out that I had time to listen one of these the day it was released!
With a young family and the world heading in a direction that seems completely opposite my moral compass, I feel myself just getting overwhelmed and depressed thinking about my kids future sometimes....it’s great to hear deeper thinkers than me struggling with similar type issues and how they see a path forward, it really helps “rank and file” types like me.
For now, I’m trying to do as JBP says “Get your house in perfect order....” and am getting more active in my community, I’ve got to do what I can to defend that space for my kids. Maybe one day I’ll have the capability to expand my reach, but it’s a start.
Great conversation DC, thanks to you and the guests! I’ll be reading more from all of them in near future.
Who needs a silent partner for some El Salvador chick fil a’s? 😎
PS - time come to Texas / the South, we are still holding the line.
I know what you mean. I have a young family and feel exactly the same.
Totally. I’m white and my wife Asian. Private school is a must due to racial tensions in our areas.
Alot to unpack in this one, but I'll try to stick to the core subject of immigration policy at federal level.
For this I'll identify as one of those "American Stock" types. When the conversation hovers around the "white replacement" ideas I get a bit turned off. I think race is the stupidest ways to group people. Ethnicity a bit better, but since I have lost all links to any historical Ethnicity its not as important to me (hence American Stock).
I do believe Illegal Immigration is a core voting issue at the federal level. It is a big factors in the degradation of American standard of living (obviously)
Total legal immigration is still debatable for me due to lower birth rates, but being able to decide who comes on is very important.
Being able to change things at the local level only works so far as you can limit the power of the federal. Good luck fixing immigration at the local level with a strong Left Wing federal government. We sent in military to force integrating schools you don't think they would do the same for illegals?
The white replacement focus was due to two things. 1) It was the context of the comment I responded to on Twitter, and the subsequent argument, and 2) given the political fissures and level of polarization in 2023, I think serious immigration rollback would require strong commitment by a supermajority of white people, and so the question becomes moot as white people slide into minority status.
As for your last question, no, personally I do not think the federal government has the will to use force to coerce a coalition of states (creating that coalition *before* picking the fight is crucial). In the ‘50s, under the leadership of the Supreme Allied Commander of the recent world war, sure, but today? I doubt it.
The reason you can never get a super majority of whites is because it isn't a cohesive group and lacks any real meaning... I just saw a study that shows most polarization is in the college educated white demographic. Everyone else is middle of the road politically (ideology not party).
I also doubt the will of the feds today to force state action, but I can forsee a future where it can, especially with unchecked immigration and federal bloat. Just imagine dems killing filibuster, packing court,etc. boom all those illegals get amnesty. Then they are "protecting fellow citizens" from rougue States.
So basically yes focus on local and state, but also reduce federal power.
Also would like to point out that most states are just about as corrupt as the federal government, including most red states.
A nice conversation. I also am curious who falls into the category of 'white?' I suspect the knee-jerk reaction would be defined as those who have some ancestry ties to Europe, but historically that would have excluded those individuals from the Mediterranean. Does a person with a Mexican mother and a white American father count as white? As an additional question, do you think the Left permits immigration (legal or otherwise) as a core to their fundamental world outlook (e.g. borders are just some imaginary construct) or as a way of maintaining political power? If I look to other alleged core beliefs of the left elites, say climate change, they certainly use that topic as a means for political power and not a tenant by which they live.
I have seen somewhere on the internet (means it's true) that a decent percentage of 3rd generation of Latin immigrants end up identifying as white... so how does that fit into the white majority discussion.
I've an interesting question that I can't find any research on. If you took 10000 Nigerian people and plopped them down in Norway completely isolated, how long until they become white? And vise versa?
“I think race is the stupidest ways to group people”
Have you read “Troublesome Inheritance” by Nicholas Wade? The biology Mother Nature gave us is real and it’s not negotiable.
It doesn’t mean that morality goes out the window and you should treat people nastily, as was done in the past, but imitating the demographics of Guatemala or South Africa will have horrible consequences for your grandchildren.
Not much of a reader... but listen to podcasts all day.
Agree with the fact that demographics matter... ALOT. Just stating race by itself is the demograph with the least informational value.
Not gunna lie, the future looks pretty grim. How can we assimilate on a mass scale like never seen before while we are also fighting the culture war about what the American values are that we want people to assimilate to?
Especially when assimilation to the other side’s “values” amounts to little more than “let’s all hate conservatives together”
I try to be optimistic but yeah it looks grim
Let’s remember how many British officers the OBE needed on the ground to maintain political control of a colony: very few
Numbers aren’t destiny for a noble caste properly unshackled
There is no noble caste any longer, and that’s not something that can be manufactured on the fly.
If we can't stop replacement immigration and do the required deportation to restore our polity, people and nation the answer is the same as if we can.
Per the comment below about a more noble elite, you and the commenter are both correct. It is in flight but we must build ourselves and our people up. We still have many good people. Are any of us on the level of the great men of a greater time? No. Not even close. But we must strengthen the hand that we have and we must build toward that ideal. For that is what led to them to what they attained.
We must focus on local politics true. It is essential that this tactic flows from the strategy of restoring a positive identity in our people. We must restore our identity as a European people, culture and nation. Even if or as it changes if we do not inculcate this positive identity in our people we will be in dire straits. We must also stop being the only tribe that does not play identity politics. Game theory proves that we will be guaranteed to lose as others pursue a group strategy.
The reasons for this are simple. The replacement migration is but one part of the project afoot. We won't just be a minority, we will be a despised and legally un-privileged minority. Our persecution is already underway and will only gain momentum if not stopped. Rhodesification or South Africanization would be a disaster for our posterity. It must be prevented at all costs. Positive identity and the formation of ourselves and our young men as noblemen are essential to prevent this and ensure our posterity's survival and ability to flourish. That must be our prime directive from which local politics and other tactics will flow.
Sorry Daryl. This is an incredible podcast. I am typing as I listen. Sorry to be so chatty. The guest who said we need ethic/racial solidarity and that our homeland and our sovereignty over it is not a negotiation is exactly correct. The fact that his comment that we should be as unapologetic in pursuing our people's interest as say, Latinos saying they vote for Latinos, was greeted with discomfort says it all. We are getting crushed because we won't organize in our interest. Protecting your genos, your ethnos, your homeland is the first most fundamental duty.
We have to get comfortable asserting our most basic right - the right to Our Homeland and Our Sovereignty. If we think that is uncomfortable, what will it feel like when we are an outnumbered, despised minority? It is a moral question because it is our children and us when we are elderly who will confront this situation. It is immoral to not protect your children and provide for the comfort of your parents. The clock is ticking. We must find our moral courage and rediscover that our first moral duty is to our genos, ethnos and the homelands from which they blossom.
I missed the name of that guest, but he is on fire.
That guest who was crushing it was IndianBronson and he’s the only guy on the show who isn’t actually white lmao
There is another elephant in the room. You must define white. The, "whites", who are most in favor of white replacement and who spew the most vitriolic anti white statements and who are in charge of the white replacement in media/film/tv may not identify as white. I put together a slide show on this topic to help my family prepare and shepherd our posterity to safety. Almost all of the names of those, "whites", seem like they may hold an ethnic and even national identity/loyalty that is toward a non-European/Christian people and nation.
That is an elephant in the room that must be a part of a productive and meaningful discussion.
There is a second elephant in the room. That is the welfare state. We could put millions of people to work. We get rid of the dole other than true physical and mental INCAPACITY. We could also reform the ponzi economy and many of the sinecures that staff the media, HR, "social justice" consultancies, government jobs, NGOs etcetera could go be productive and constructive rather than destructive. The sinecure class is another welfare recipient and they are highly destructive. Would they pick lettuce, be part-time hotel clerks? Yes. Would they learn to be a part of a real, physical community where they are of service? Yes.
Instead of spitting on manual and menial work and the people who do it, we could honor it and them as being an important part of the fabric of society. This ruling regime's, "elite", are so degenerate, they spit on hard work and the people who do it.
In any case, welfare reform and government subsidy of the sinecure employment could probably eliminate the, "we need more workers", argument. We have them here already. They just need to be put to work - real work.
This discussion really illustrates the reason the Right struggles against the Left.
The Left has a unifying goal - make government larger and more powerful until it is dominant enough to force Progressivism on everyone, everywhere, all the time. It doesn't require 100% ideological perfection, just slow, creeping progress toward total control.
The Right is significantly more hung up on ideological purity. The debate in this episode sounds very similar to the debate we had California in 1994.
The Right's argument in 1994 - "their first act was to break our laws, they must be deported."
Mass deportation was never going to happen but the Right refused to move off that position. Any mention of (gasp) amnesty on the Right is met with complete disdain.
All the Left had to do was watch us fight and wait us out.
Since 1994 at least 20 million illegal immigrants entered and remain in the US.
Our plan isn't working.
This is my proposal at the state/local level:
1. give illegals in Idaho ID cards so we know who they are, can collect taxes, etc.
2. if an illegal immigrant commits a crime they are deported to CA
3. if they are found in Idaho after deportation to CA they receive a minimum 5 years in jail
The response is usually "you are a RINO sell out cuck who wants cheap labor." lol.
If the only acceptable approach is border wall and mass deportation (AKA a similar position from 1994) we will get another 30+ million illegal immigrants over the next 10 years and deliver them right into the hands of tyrant Progressives.
Another point in this already super long post - moderate Republicans are happy to work with Democrats when conservative Republicans thrash the shit out of them repeatedly...we are seeing this in Idaho this legislative session.
In other words, when the Right is raucous without winning seats in a Republican majority the Republican majority eventually becomes a Democrat majority. We need to turn our passion into electoral victory ASAP or face Californization in all 50 states.
One point that I don't see brought up a lot with this demographic shift is how the declining white hegemony will affect attitudes toward native Americans. Do the Latino, Asian, and African population feel the same responsibility for preserving the native reservations in the way non-hispanic European stock do?
Speaking in very broad generalizations with my experience with tribes in the western US there seems to be a certain amount of affinity between those who consider themselves Latino/Latina and Native Americans and their causes. This tends to be strongest among the second plus generation activists found at colleges and universities nationwide. The first generation immigrants from Mexico and Peru are all too busy trying to make it themselves to worry about anyone else’s political cause or culture.
If Seattle is anything to judge by there are racial tensions between the major Asian ethnicities and Native Americans and there doesn’t seem to be any special affinity for preserving NA culture etc.
I have never seen African immigrants in any sort of relationship with Native Americans although there are generally racial tensions between African Americans and Native Americans. I highly doubt the Muslim Somali immigrants to Michigan and Minnesota will entertain the idea of reparations or repatriation for the Sioux, who have a far better claim to that land than their claim on the Black Hills. Likewise I don’t think Nigerian immigrants waste much time thinking on the complex problems of Native American poverty because they are too busy actively pursuing education and working their way into being one of the most successful minorities in the country.
There are probably too many generalizations here to be of much use, because the cultures and relationships of the various groups of Native Americans differs so widely depending on geographic location and tribe not to mention the vast array of immigrant backgrounds.
Sooo what do you mean? Like that they have their own mini "nations" because the "White Hegemony" doesn't support the reservations like you might imagine... these places aren't bastions of prosperity and wealth... So do you mean just honoring the territories? Because that's a very loose situation as well.
"Conquered" people... via immigration, or straight up warfare/treaty are just that... defeated!
As a "Latino" kinda hate that term because it's super generic (im Mexican) i have great respect and would actually want MORE preservation of Native lands and peoples! And im just one person!
Yeah there’s no fighting this federally. Interesting arguments from a local or regional level. However, over the next three or four decades, Whites and Hispanics are going to have to become allied to stop African and other third world mass immigration into the states. This is actually a winnable battle and undoubtedly coming. Replacement is the effect; the need for a permanent serf class is the cause.
I think the unanimity of exerting power on the local level is something just about everyone else on the “dissident” right can take action with today. This needs to be a major focus on the right and it hasn’t been for any point in my lifetime. One point I disagree with, or at least disagree with from how I understood it, was made at the end. I think the US is the next cradle of Western civilization and staying with the European drivers behind Greece, Rome, the Renaissance, etc are paramount in a better future. These standards have been missing for nearly everyone alive today and need to be reinvigorated some way.
That was meant more as a “What If?” than it probably came across.
Are you familiar with the French historian Phillipe Fabry? He has an interesting take on cycles of history-if I remember correctly he identifies at least 2 types of civilizations, and possibly 3 or 4, but I remember that he considers ancient Athens and Rome to be somewhat analogous to British Empire/USA, and makes some interesting predictions about the coming shifts in Geopolitical relationship. I don't think he would share your optimism for western civilization but I thought he made some unique observations so I thought I'd share, and see if anyone else knew about him, I think most of his stuff is only available in french.
Middle of the week suprise... Nice