Listen now (4 hrs) | Hi everybody. So, many of you will have already heard a version of this episode (called The Administration of Savagery, released about a year or two ago), but this version is updated with new information and cleaned up a bit. I thought it was worth re-upping due to the current crisis in Gaza.
What’s disturbing about this conflict is you can hear either side’s story and feel convinced they are unequivocally the good guys protecting their people from an aggressor... until you hear the other side’s story. But most people stop at just hearing one side. Even “smart” people talk as if they are completely unaware of the other side’s perspective.. which they likely are.
Thanks for keeping us informed of both sides, Darryl.
Yo Darryl. A dude that I’m in a stock trading discord with is Jewish, and had a great grandfather that was born in Hebron around 1900-1905. Dude was hidden by Arab friends during revolt/uprising in 1929. He was one of the first people to join the Irgun. Knew Jabotinsky. Fucking wild. Like no one else in our discord had any idea what we were talking about, including active duty service people.
Just starting this. Thanks for putting it together Darryl.
I was raised Jewish. My best friend and second family are Palestinian-American. This is tough. My heart always goes out to them first. But they need to be realistic. They need remember that the vast majority on both sides just want peace. Unfortunately, we live in a world where media and politicians allow the extremist super-minority to speak for the masses. That’s not changing anytime soon. Peace and humanity can still be a leading principle.
I love listening to this, and reading on the subject. Written many papers on the conflict from grade school through college. But it’s so hard…because there seems no end. Darryl said on The Unraveling, and I’m paraphrasing…that if this happened pre-WW1 or during 19th century, this conflict wouldn’t exist because zionists would have “completed the job” by eradicating whoever was in their way. Geneva Convention, League of Nations, UN, etc is what prevented a full cleansing of the levant. Here we are….
Just in time after re-listening to Fear and Loathing
Wow Darryl! This is a fantastic podcast. As someone who is Jewish, who lived in Israel, and is solidly on the "side" of Israel, this podcast helped me to see the other side. Although I know probably more than most Americans about this subject, I still learned a heck of a lot! I moved to Israel in 1995 when everyone was giddy over peace prospects. Unfortunately, the extremist on both sides always win. I wish there could be peace after 75 years - my fantasy is that somehow SA and other Arab states will make that happen. (I believe there may be a greater chance of that happening post Oct 7 than there has been in some time.) Anyway, one thing I want to impart to those who don't believe Israel as a Zionist entity has a right to exist is that Israel is understood by many Jews to be our only safe haven. We know after centuries of persecution (it started way before Hitler) that it can and probably will happen again. A strong Israeli state as a refuge protected by a strong army represents protection to many Jews, even if they currently live in the US or elsewhere.
I just subscribed. I don’t exactly have expendable income. Worth every penny. Thank you for what you do.
Fantastic as always. A couple of questions if you have the time.
I've never quite understood the driving logic behind secular Pan-Arabism. The appeal of a caliphate seems obvious, but what is the "theological" element in Pan-Arabism? Did these people believe in a "racial" identity over a tribal one? Was it mostly cynical like Japanese anti-colonialism? I'm sure there were a variety of motivations, but what was the glue that kept these mostly secular regimes aligned?
This is a great podcast. It has left me wondering about the parallels between the situation Israel finds itself in now and the situation France found itself in Algeria. Hamas using FLN tactics to brutally terrorise then cash in on public opinion when the inevitable overreaction falls on them. Where France retaliated their way out of worldwide support leaving them with two options- go hardcore hard or go home. The French flinched at the destruction they would have to inflict and eventually had to concede and leave Algeria. Are Israel at that same point now? Has Israel decided a political accommodation with the Palestinians will never succeed no matter what, ruling out all other options to replace going hard? Has Israel studied the France in Algeria and taken the alternative route, not flinched, said fuck it let’s see where this takes us? If they are truly on the ‘going hard’ path, I fear this may be the end of Gaza as a Palestinian territory.
May have. To wait to listen to this one. Went to Pantera and Metallica tonight. Great show.
Thanks Darryl! I loved this series and I look forward to listening to this updated episode. You are one of the few reasonable voices on this topic. God bless.
4:03 Sabra Shatila is an area that I need to understand better. My understanding is that the massacre is used by Israel Zionist Jew haters to bang over our head. I want to study more sides of this massacre.
I just re-started fear and loathing.
Just started listening. I think I’m fairly unique here in the US in that my great grandfather and his brothers built the house I grew up in. My grandmother and great uncle were born in that house. My parents and younger brother still live there. If one of the Indian nations that were here before we were suddenly came back and pushed us out, I’d burn it down on the way out, assuming my father didn’t do it first. If none of us managed it, well if I have to come back in the night and do it while a family is sleeping but waking them up to get them out increases my chances of getting shot or jailed, maybe they just have to take their chances.
An often-repeated hypothetical argument used by Israel and pro-Israel supporters (e.g. Sam Harris), is that if Hamas’ and Israel’s military capabilities were reversed, Hamas would not hesitate in wiping out the entire civilian population of Israel. Maybe? But the rhetoric used by all middle eastern leaders ( including Israel) has always been notoriously “over-the-top” and should be taken with a grain of salt.
The talking point “Israel could wipe-out the entire Palestinian population in an afternoon if it wanted to” implies that in choosing not to do so, Israel somehow possesses a moral superiority over its Palestinian rivals. However, although Israel’s military is very powerful it is not omnipotent. It does not have heavy bombers etc., if it did, it almost certainly would have used them in Gaza. Other than their nukes (which could not practically be used in their own back yard), Israel is currently at near full capacity in its industrial mass extermination project in Gaza. Phase II of this project will undoubtedly target the West Bank . People forget, genocide is hard work. Usually, a long and difficult process requiring significant time and resources. Perhaps they could distribute machetes to the entire population of Israel and set them loose in Gaza? This method was proven to be quite efficient and cost-effective in Rwanda.
I love how so many of us re-listen to Fear and Loathing! We need t-shirts or something...
I'm listening out for when Darryl quotes a book which describes what life was like before the early Zionists arrived, mainly because I am looking for sources to counter the oft-quoted Mark Twain 'the land was barren, we saw no-one at all' (paraphrase) in his book 'Innocents Abroad' (1869). I believe the author of the book Darryl mentions has a first name of Avram.
The notification for this episode made me so happy. Because tommorow I will be going on a hunting trip in the blue ridge mountains, middle of the day will be the perfect time to give this entire series a relisten. Daryl, thanks for making my trip even better and more interesting.